Torrevieja Forum

[Sheff_Blade]

Labour will not leave the EU without a deal! So how will that work if the EU negotiators play awkward?

What a stupid position to take into a negotiation!

So if the EU demand £200 trillion settlement, no access to the single market, worse than WTO terms etc, then a labour government will reverse the decision to leave. Perhaps Jeremy is making a play for the votes of the remainers?

[Sheff_Blade]

Labour will not leave the EU without a deal! So how will that work if the EU negotiators play awkward?

What a stupid position to take into a negotiation!

So if the EU demand £200 trillion settlement, no access to the single market, worse than WTO terms etc, then a labour government will reverse the decision to leave. Perhaps Jeremy is making a play for the votes of the remainers?

Apart from £200 trillion, which they have not asked for the other two parts of the deal you mention, in a manner that shows it would not be good for the UK, (WTO is a maximum by the way), That's what Theresa May will get - no access to the single market and possible WTO, so her deal will be like Jeremy's.

Good to see that you think no access to the single market is bad for the UK, but that's if Corbyn got it.

Do you feel the same if May gets it.

I think you fail to grasp my point (if you'll pardon the expression!).

Effectively labour are saying that they will ignore the referendum result and stay in the EU, because that is the most likely outcome from their stance. The EU simply have to refuse to negotiate, or offer completely unacceptable terms, and a labour government would claim that we will have to stay in the EU because the only other option would be hard Brexit.

[Kinchy]

Labour have no idea what they would do, but the situation is rather hypothetical as Corbyn and his crew look set to be destroyed on June 8th.
Reading parts of the leaked manifesto it is almost a copy of Michael Foot's long suicide note from 1983, and he too was destroyed.
A far left, union influenced 1970's inspired claptrap document, with class envy written all over it.
"A party of and for the Union barons not the many nor the few"

[Kinchy]

I honestly don't see what pleasure clever chaps like brother kinchy get from seeing people forced in to food banks and shite jobs with no prospects and all the rest of it.
How do you justify voting for the party of the few mate ?
You need to forget the seventies, and move on, and accept that socialism and capitalism can be happy bed fellows.

Oh so I need to forget the seventies, how very convenient for you as you continuously harp on about the 80's - selective thinking perhaps?
Do I see a mellowing in the face of total wipe out?
I get no pleasure from anyones need to use food banks, but they were around long before Mr Brooon got booted out.

Labour - "The Union dominated few controlling the many"

[Sheff_Blade]

I do understand, but I don't see any difference in reality.

Based on information so far, we now know what Labour want, we know what liberal want, but we don't know what Conservative want.

By want I mean detail. We have no idea what May considers a good or bad deal.

She has said no deal is better than a bad deal, but not knowing what she means by a bad deal how can we judge - said the judge.

You obviously don't understand, but tell me. in detail, what do labour want?

[Sheff_Blade]

.... Labour would seek to end free movement but not shut the door on the single market, the customs union or participation in EU agencies ...

And there you have it. EVERYBODY says, no freedom of movement then no single market or customs union. On that basis then it is virtually certain there will be no agreement. End of. Therefore a labour government would NOT take us out of the EU. Is that clear?

[Sheff_Blade]

.... Labour would seek to end free movement but not shut the door on the single market, the customs union or participation in EU agencies ...

And there you have it. EVERYBODY says, no freedom of movement then no single market or customs union. On that basis then it is virtually certain there will be no agreement. End of. Therefore a labour government would NOT take us out of the EU. Is that clear?

But that would be the best deal for Britain wouldn't it, no freedom of movement but access to the single market and customs union.
Mrs May says she will negotiate the best deal for Britain. Her aim is still no freedom of movement but access to the single market etc.
No difference.

I haven't a clue what you're talking about so let's try and keep things simple. Three outcomes out of a host of possible scenarios:

a) UK is a member of the single market ie no tariffs or restrictions whatsoever
b) UK has access to single market at better than WTO terms (X% tariff, less than WTO)
c) UK has access to single market on WTO terms

Assuming the next Government insists on 'no freedom of movement', then
a) will never happen, the EU will not allow it.
c) is hard Brexit and unacceptable to Corbyn, but the fall-back position of May.

That leaves b) and the negotiations will determine the X% tariff, which the incumbent PM will declare a victory.

As far as I'm aware the Labour manifesto states that if no acceptable agreement is made on b) then they will not leave the EU.

So if it were trade unionists negotiating an annual pay increase, then this is equivalent to the TU-side saying that if they don't come to a satisfactory agreement with management then they will abandon the annual pay increase until next year.

[Sheff_Blade]

I can see why Sheffield and co are so confused, there was a lot of talk pre referendum that The U.K. was so important to europe that we would stop paying in but automatically be allowed to cherry pick the bits we want to keep, I think the brexiteers are reeling from Mrs Mays bull in a China shop approach and the realization that there will be no cake and eat it deal and have thus developed selective amnesia to maybe soften the pain and shame for the mess they blindly voted for.

When it comes to selective amnesia, I think you're a bit of an expert but I'm quite sure nobody said we could cherry-pick. There's been ample, conclusive proof that both side of the argument said we would NOT be in the single market, but that we would be in a strong negotiating position as we are prepared to walk away without agreement; though comrade Corbyn wouldn't, he would simply rejoin the EU.

Anyway, no time to argue. I've got to get down to the food bank before they run out of pate de fois gras.

[credimus]

Jeremy Corbyn, "I am not a pacifist!"

Diane Abbott, "That makes twelve of us."

[Kinchy]

Still having the fetish about backsides? How very unhealthy
Help can be sought from medical professionals in most psychiatric departments.

[Kinchy]

Not if you are in the U.K. You can't,
huge underinvestment in that department, huge waiting time, you have normally topped yourself before you get to see a shrink.

Oh the joy of wishful thinking for dandino

[Kinchy]

Yet one more reason to NOT vote for this vile man and his defunct party.
Mr Corbyn was detained by police after taking part in a protest by IRA sympathisers in 1986, a Sunday Times investigation has revealed.
According to the newspaper, the event was  to "show solidarity" with accused terrorists including the Brighton bomber.
Those who attended claimed the rally was to “show solidarity with the Irish Republican prisoners put on trial by the British state”.
He was allegedly one of a crowd which gathered outside the Old Bailey to oppose the "show trial" of a group that included Patrick Magee, who was found guilty of 5 murders.

Anyone who supports this reptile to govern the nation really should examine their conscience.

[Kinchy]

So, what alternative employment would you suggest for all the "workers" manufacturing those goods sold to Saudi. Your reply will be interesting.
Perhaps we could open up factories making Mao uniforms, or turn them into stone masons making statues of Chairman Jeremy, 20 foot high to be sited at the main road into every UK city, or book distributors delivering to each household The Thoughts of Chairman Jeremy Red Book,
The Communist Few controlling the many.

Another example of the Unions hold over labour........................
MORE than 100 policies included in Labour's leaked draft manifesto were virtually copied and pasted from proposals demanded by trade unions, it has been claimed.
Labour manifesto - written by Red Len !!!

And more..................
Jeremy Corbyn has drafted in a former Communist Party activist who once called for 'solidarity' with North Korea to help with Labour's floundering election campaign.
Andrew Murray, a former Morning Star journalist who only quit the Communists for Labour in December, is providing 'support' to the leader's office.
A senior party source confirmed has been seconded from the Unite union, where he is Len McCluskey's chief of staff.
The move caused fury among Labour moderates who have accused Mr Corbyn of guiding the party to disaster with his hard-left policies.

The Communist Party disguised as Labour - no doubt about it.


Will Primark or Matalan be the best place to buy your Maoist uniform and where would you get a Kim Jong Un haircut - Probably Islington

[Kinchy]

Mmmm I thought that might be your reply
But wait, we have found a new location for the factories - The Peoples Communist Republic of Islington and Hackney.

[Kinchy]

Vote Communist - you know its madness!